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RRRC Competitions Committee Notes – 11/11/2019

The Red River Competitions Committee releases their monthly committee call minutes and notes. View all of the archived RRRC minutes or read on for the most recent:

    1. Roll Call
      1. Roche
      2. Kolberg
      3. Kurylas
      4. Dale
      5. Tolar
      6. Dodge
      7. Keuppens
      8. Watson
        1. Regrets
          1. Young
          2. Leming
          3. O’Gara
          4. Fosco
          5. Hughes
    2. Follow Ups
      1. Club Compliance checks
        1. Young: 50 clubs are compliant! Waiting on two clubs: Space City Rugby (Need 15 CIPP’d players/TRU social) and Tyler M (need L200 coach). Everyone else is compliant but most are still working on still CIPPing members. Also, most of the WD3 clubs are still growing but are compliant as far as coach requirements.
        2. Dodge: Do we know whether the Barbarians are compliant?
        3. Roche: Everyone is but Space City (non-competitive) and Tyler.
        4. Dodge: Tyler said they’d be compliant this week.
        5. Roche: Tyler is only missing an L200 coach but they are probably waiting for a background check.
      2. CMS Compliance
        1. Dodge: How are we looking with compliance?
        2. Roche: CMS is overall good. Tyler had to postpone due to lack of compliance. Utah backed out of a travel weekend and left Austin and Houston in the dark.
      3. Match Cancellations/Reschedules ad hoc Committee
        1. Dodge: Did everyone get a chance to look at this? I think we should give the teams a chance to work it out post-match. It needs to be done quickly, if an agreement can’t be worked out in 36-72 hours then this kicks in. I worked it out for when the next available weekend that the teams don’t have a league match
        2. Kurylas: What if a club has a fundraiser and has something scheduled for the “next open weekend”? I know teams can supply blackout dates to Travis ahead of time, would those factor into the weekends?
        3. Dodge: The party that is dissatisfied with the way this turns out, can file an appeal. That way we have a black and white write-out of what the protocol should be, and if they still don’t want to do that they can appeal. Deadline is by 9am Wednesday to figure it out before the protocol kicks in. That gives them time to survey their players to figure out what day works best. Default is next available cup match weekend. 
        4. Kolberg: Would it be a good clarification to add that “open dates” include days teams have non-Cup matches?
        5. Dodge: Next available league match date is defined in the protocol and includes that.
        6. Kolberg: What I’m looking for is a clarification so it doesn’t go into a black hole of grievances and appeals.
        7. Watson: Can we make it so match reschedules take priority over all other schedule conflicts?
        8. Watson: Is there a way that we can intervene if we set the date and both teams don’t play?
        9. Dodge: That would result in a forfeit – but to whom?
        10. Watson: What is the sanction if both teams never end up playing the game?
        11. Dodge: If the match doesn’t affect anyone’s standings in terms of league standings, and it can’t be played it just can’t be played?
        12. Watson: Doesn’t that set a bad precedent?
        13. Dodge: Well, we can’t force teams to play.
        14. Keuppens: Can we rephrase that “if the outcome is necessary and critical to league standings – if one or more teams should be unable to play, it may result in forfeiture associated with that team”.
        15. Watson: If a game is not played – X number of points may be deducted from that team at the end of the regular season. 
        16. Dodge: Usually matches that end in this result don’t mean anything in terms of league standings
        17. Watson: There has to be some consequences for not playing games.
        18. Dale: Meaningful consequences
        19. Dodge: A match with meaning affects any club (not just involved in that match) in terms of standings.
        20. Keuppens: If it has ANY material implications it must be played and failure to play on the next available RRRC date for both teams, the teams will be subject to forfeiture – which could have playoff implications against.
        21. Kurylas: After that it would go to the TRU for any fines that could be imposed.
        22. Watson: If it affects the competition and standings there needs to be a meaningful consequence against the teams.
        23. Kolberg: This happened last year with the top two leagues in D2, both teams had their seeds locked down but the game still mattered. Do we have the same standards in D1 as we have D4? The spirit of the game is different at those levels. D4 is about participation and growth while D1 has higher standards of commitment. A fine could be detrimental to a new organization like a D4 club. If we punish a team that is putting effort into – are we really helping anything? If we say a team MAY be subject to forfeiture – then we have some wiggle room to look at each situation and help out the developing teams that truly try their hardest to field teams. Versus the clubs with 100 CIPPed members that just want to do something else on the weekend.
        24. Dodge: Anything that happens in D4 the TRU has to check off on since we don’t govern that competition.
        25. Kolberg: You have documentation at the bottom of the document regarding the appeal process. I think everything we’ve just discussed is in that process.
        26. Dodge: That’s the general idea. The rule is self-executing, but if a team is not okay with it – they can appeal. I added referee availability, field availability, blackout dates requested, fairness to both teams, but would also like to add “playoff and promotion/relegation significance to the match and the amount of time left in the season”. Do we want to leave the “fairness” element in there? It’s vague but it also creates a lack of predictability for anyone who is considering appealing.
        27. Keuppens: That means it will require a ruling by the RRRC committee. 
        28. Dodge: If teams can’t reach an agreement, they can appeal (promptly) so a determination can be quickly made.
        29. Watson: Who would they appeal to?
        30. Dodge: Our committee.
        31. Keuppens: We give them the opportunity to appeal the sanctioning post-forfeit?
        32. Dodge: They have until 9am Wednesday to reach an agreement – then by 5pm to appeal if they cannot reach an agreement. Then we have time to get three board members together and make a decision.
        33. Kolberg: What if they use the appeal process to delay the reschedule?
        34. Dodge: We can’t take away a team’s ability to appeal.
        35. Kolberg: So would it be a forfeit?
        36. Dodge: That would be up to the NCC.
        37. Keuppens: If we make a policy that makes sense and present it to the NCC, the likelihood that the appeals go through would be lowered.
        38. Dodge: We had a situation last year that could have possibly been prevented with this clear policy in place. 
        39. Keuppens: The biggest sanction you could place on these teams are forced forfeiture. If both teams are out of the running at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter.
        40. Watson: I can’t find any place where RRRC is a recognized unit by USAR. The TRU recognizes us but we are not nationally recognized. Teams would have to appeal to the TRU than appeal further.
        41. Dodge: That’s not true – we had a big issue 5 or 6 years ago and we settled that. The TRU only deals with fines in association with appeals. Any appeal to the application of this rule would go right to the NCC. I’m going to recirculate this so everyone can see it again in writing with the updates. If it looks like you’ve got to cancel the match you have until 9pm the night before the match to notify everyone. What about the ARs?
        42. Roche: It’s easier to loop the ARs in directly – but the referees will also be responsible for double checking with their referee team. 
        43. Kolberg: The team that is cancelling is creating the issues – they should be responsible for notifying anyone this pertains to.
        44. Dodge: Then the teams need to figure it out by 9am Wednesday otherwise it’s the next available league match date. If they don’t like any of those options – they can appeal and we can consider all the factors. If you miss the 9pm deadline and the match was cancelled day of, and the traveling team wasn’t notified by 8am and travelled over 90 miles, the rescheduled match will be played at the travelling teams’ field.
        45. Dale: Say you had a weather issue that affected only the travelling team?
        46. Dodge: We can add that it would have to be the home team that cancels.
        47. Roche: What if the teams start playing chicken with one another and don’t try to cancel because they want the sanction to fall on the opposing side?
        48. Dodge: If the league match is cancelled under this policy – the RRRC will determine the teams that may be subject to forfeiture. Let’s try to get a vote by Wednesday night so we can send it out and put it in motion this weekend.
          1. UPDATE 11/14: Proposal was reviewed and approved via email.
            1. Yes: Kurylas, Tolar, Kolberg, Fosco, Dale, Hughes, Watson, Lemming, Dodge, and Young
    3. Competition Enhancement ad hoc Committee
              1. Dodge: Anything in the works about this? Karl, Jeff and Kurylas?
              2. Tolar: We’re going to check out the first few weeks of the season and see if we need to do anything pressing
    4. Referee Abuse Proposal
                1. Dodge: Was proposed but not voted on. I made some last minute comments on it, but I think it came after the proposal was voted on. It still hasn’t been approved by the TRU or disciplinary committee?
                2. Kolberg: What’s the hold-up on that? It seems like an easy thing to do.
                3. Dodge: There were concerns about putting more pressure on the referees in the middle to report more things. I would recommend reading the minutes surrounding that.
                4. Watson: I thought we agreed to having a field marshal non-affiliated with the club attend.
                5. Dodge: There’s just not enough people to go around.
                6. Watson: Have we had any referee abuse issues since then?
                7. Dodge: We had a big one in Kingwood vs HARC. Take a look and I will push to get this passed. We need to get this out there and get it published.
    5. Referee Training Events
      1. Roche: Tim O’Gara has been doing a great job hosting Referee Training events. If you’re up in the Dallas area please be open to working with him.
        1. Dodge: Do the women’s D3 round robins work?
        2. Roche: We need a bit more variation of matches for training like men’s matches, women’s matches so the referees can work under pressure with a good support team.
  1. Playoffs
    1. Please confirm playoff formats for all RRRC divisions:
      1. MD1
        1. 4/18 #1 hosts #4, #2 hosts #3
        2. 4/25 – winners face off
        3. 5/15-17 – RRRC D1 Champions faces PRP Champion
        4. 5/30 – USAR Championship
      2. WD1
        1. 5/2 – 5/3 – Frontier Red River Championship (higher seed hosts)
          1. #1 TX vs #2 Frontier
          2. #1 Frontier vs #2 TX
      3. MD2
        1. North #1 vs South #2, South #1 vs North #2 on 4/25
        2. Winners on 4/26
        3. 5/15-17 RRRC D2 representative goes to RO8 (2 matches to advance)
      4. WD2
        1. 4/26: RRRC Championships
          1. North #1 vs South #2 and South #1 vs North #2 semi-final
      5. MD3
        1. 4/18 – #1 and #2 get byes, #3,4,5,6 play-in as Wild-Cards
        2. Ranking determined by weighted points
      6. Dodge: We’ll take a look at the website and make sure it reflects all of the updated information then get that over to Wendy
    2. Championships
      1. 5/15 – 5/17 – USA Rugby Round of 8
        1. Dodge: Haven’t seen anything on applications about where that will be but betting Texas will be low on the totem pole since we’ve hosted the past two years
      2. 5/30 – USA Rugby Championship
        1. Dodge: No information on where that will be this year – I can ask around.
  2. Men’s Tights Allowance
    1. Dodge: New proposal regarding players wearing tights – not just men though?
    2. Roche: Women are always allowed to wear tights.
    3. Dodge: Under WR laws you are not allowed to wear tights, but this provides an exception for locals to avoid that
    4. Watson: Why would anyone allow that?
    5. Kolberg: Are they also looking at changing guest player eligibility numbers up to the round of 8?
    6. Dodge: There’s always been an option – but we’ve never adopted it in the Red River because it wouldn’t apply to the RO8 or higher.
  3. New Business
    1. None
  4. Meeting Adjourned (9:12 PM)