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RRRC Competitions Committee Notes – 3/9/20

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The Red River Competitions Committee releases their monthly committee call minutes and notes. View all of the archived RRRC minutes or read on for the most recent:

    1. Roll Call
      1. Young (acting Chair)
      2. Roche
      3. Kolberg
      4. Kurylas
      5. Dale
      6. Watson
      7. Fosco
        1. Regrets
          1. Dodge
          2. Tolar
          3. O’Gara
            1. Designated Roche as proxy
          4. Leming
          5. Hughes
    2. Quorum
      1. Kolberg: I think everyone is bailing because they’re watching the Bachelor finale. 
      2. Young: With Roche as O’Gara’s proxy, we have a quorum. It’s a good thing as we have lots to cover tonight. I’ll be acting Chair as Dodge can’t make it tonight.
    3. Follow Ups
      1.  CMS
        1. Roche: Pretty good here, a couple of teams I reached out to this week. Still waiting on Dallas Reds to finish up two matches from two weeks ago. They paid the fee but just need to finish it.
          1. Kolberg: I got onto Fil about that and he will do it.
        2. Roche: Utah hasn’t done theirs but they aren’t technically under the TRU. They have until Wed at 5pm per USAR guidelines. Austin and Dallas have down their part of the games.
          1. Forfeits & Cancellations
            1. West Houston 2/1 and 2/8 forfeits / Invoice PAID 2/24
              1. Young: WH has paid their invoice for their fines. But they have made very little effort to reschedule. Neither match has been rescheduled and WH’s opponents have reported that they have been quite difficult to work with. 
              2. Roche: They also had a played forfeit this weekend against Dallas Reds MD2. 
              3. Watson: Is this something where we could force a date on the team? We’ve done that in the past.
              4. Kurylas: We’ve done that before but it’s usually around weather cancellations.
              5. Watson: Why did they forfeit this weekend?
              6. Kolberg: Not sure but it was a played forfeit where they borrowed some of our players. 
              7. Kurylas: Obviously we need to revisit this for next season as WH really only has the numbers for one side right now.
              8. Kolberg: I agree, we’re going to have to revisit this at the end of the competitive cycle. 
              9. Dale: Perhaps moving 30 miles away from their base of players might be why they are struggling with numbers. 
              10. Young: OK, so both matches will be marked as unplayed forfeits in CMS and we will refer this to the TRU for further review. Any objections? None. APPROVED.
            2. Abilene @ Denton 2/22 – Played Forfeit
            3. San Antonio D3 @ McAllen 2/22 – unplayed foreit, Not notified until Friday before
            4. San Marcos D4 @ HARC D4 2/29 – unplayed forfeit, Notified Wednesday before
            5. OKC @ Dallas Reds 3 2/29- unplayed forfeit, Notified day of
            6. Diablos @ NTXB 3/8- unplayed forfeit, NTXB notified Monday before, TRU notified Friday before
            7. Alamo City @ Corpus Christi 3/7- played forfeit
            8. WHL D2 @ Dallas Reds 2 3/7- played forfeit
            9. HARC D4 @ San Marcos D4 3/7- played forfeit
              1. Roche: Beyond WH, we also had two unplayed forfeits in MD3. We have a few teams that when their teams are in different cities they aren’t able to play a full roster. I’m looking ahead in the schedule to see if we have future issues with these multiple side clubs. 
              2. Young: OK, we will refer the new unplayed forfeits to the TRU for review and possible sanction.
          2. RRRC 7s Bids
            1. Young: Wanted to provide an update on bids, we’ve received one from the Huns for Bloodfest and Little Rock. Bids are due March 27 and we’d like to have a few others to consider alongside those that we’ve already received.
            2. Roche: Could the Austin Valkyries bid?
            3. Kolberg: Sure.
            4. Young: Yes, we will take bids from any clubs. If no one  else bids…they could win!
    4.  3 Yellow Cards Policy
      1. Dodge email 3/9: The rule that 3 yellow cards in a 12-month period = a red card.  It has always been my understanding that only certain categories of yellow cards (e.g., those for dangerous play) counted toward this limit, and that yellow cards for things like obstruction, repeated infringements, intentional knock-ons, etc., did not.  However, there is some ambiguity in the rule, and a practical problem that the YC tracking that the DC has done to date does not specify the basis for the YC (although same would be available in Who’s the Ref. – but not everyone has access to that). An email string with further discussion on this is attached, and Kat and Wendy are up to speed on those discussions.  There have been a number of YCs handed out this year, and depending on how this rule is interpreted, several players on various clubs that are 1 YC away from a red card. I would like the committee to make a decision on the interpretation of the rule so we can get that information out to the teams as we head into playoffs so that there is no confusion.
      2. Young: This came up on the TRU call last month and Dodge asked for clarity from our TRU DC. Scot didn’t have any direct feedback but he recommended that we discuss as a committee. 
      3. Watson: I believe World Rugby is 3 cards and it’s an automatic suspension. 
      4. Kolberg: 3 yellow cards in a 12 month period has existed for a long time but it was for foul play. I thought it was only for foul play. 
      5. Fosco: I thought it was 3 yellow cards without any designation. 
      6. Young: I did the research on this and USAR/World Rugby regulations don’t designate it has to be foul play. 
      7. Kolberg: I think this needs to be defined much better than a general yellow card.
        1. Roche: I have a question on if this is ONLY for yellow cards that referees report.
        2. Young: Are you asking if this is only for reports that are put into WTR?
        3. Roche: Yes.
        4. Young: I think it does need to be only for the cards we have reported. Ideally we should not have any cards that aren’t reported in the system.
      8. Dale: I’m looking at USAR Disciplinary Procedures that says it does have to be foul play and within 12 months. I’ll send you the link. 
        1. Young: Dale sent me the link: https://assets.usarugby.org/docs/refereeing/disciplinary-procedures.pdf. See section 5: PROCEDURES TO BE FOLLOWED WHENEVER A PLAYER IS ORDERED OFF (RED CARD) FROM A MATCH, OR IS TEMPORARILY SUSPENDED (YELLOW CARD) FOR FOUL PLAY FROM 3 MATCHES WITHIN A 1-YEAR PERIOD. Section 5.3 is similar but doesn’t reference foul play, it’s essentially expanding on section 5. This was the same document I referenced above but I totally skipped reading section 5 and went to section 5.3. Oops!
        2. Fosco: The reference line also explains this a bit more: 1As noted, the subsequent Yellow Card has consequences within the context of the disciplinary process, but not necessarily a consequence on the field of play. For example, Player X receives two Yellow Cards in Match #1 (which, under the Laws of the Game, means that he received a Red Card). Player X then receives another Yellow Card in Match 2. This third overall Yellow Card means that for disciplinary purposes, it is as if Player X received a Red Card and, as the result thereof, Player X would be the subject of the disciplinary process; however, the referee of Match 2 would not need to send Player X off the pitch as a consequence of such third Yellow Card. If Player X was given a second Yellow Card in Match 2, then (1) Player X would be sent send from the field under the Laws of the Game, and (2) Player X would face additional disciplinary process as the consequence of such second Yellow Card in Match 2 as well.
        3. Kolberg: Is foul play defined?
        4. Roche: Yes, that is Law 9.
        5. Dale: How is this checked?
        6. Young: Scot usually runs a check right before playoffs and then the player is notified. I don’t know that we’ve ever had a player actually hit this though…but this year we have had a lot of cards. 
        7. Young: Any objections to following this policy as written? If a player receives 3 yellow cards for foul play then they are automatically under a red card sanction of 8 days or at least one match.
          1. Fosco: No.
          2. Watson: No.
          3. Kolberg: Yes, I object. I think we should ask around. What if a player gets carded for foul play but it was a misidentification?
            1. Young: Then that player should provide film and appeal their sanction. We have a process for that. I will note that we are one of the more organized GUs and that some don’t track cards at all. Shocking I know, but it’s true.
            2. Kolberg: How is that fair?
            3. Young: I didn’t say it was, more that it happens. But we should focus on what we can control.
          4. Watson: I can ask John Clavin on the Referees R&L for clarification.
          5. Kolberg: Ok, I think that would be a good step.
          6. Roche: I do think it is our responsibility to track this and make sure that we do it for the safety of all the teams. We shouldn’t be allowing dangerous players to continue hurting other players. We should set the example in our union.
          7. Young: I think it’s ok to ask John Clavin for his recommendation. Is anyone opposed with getting more details and we talk about this again next month? Kat can you go ahead and do a check of all the reports that we’ve received?
          8. Roche: I did a check last month but am happy to do it again.
          9. Young: Ok, we will gather more information and talk about this again next month. 
    5. Playoff Reminders
      1. Young: Dodge wanted to start sending out reminders to the clubs ahead of playoffs next month. Those reminders are below and will be shared on the website and social media soon.
        1. April 1 Transfer Deadline
          1. Young: Players must show up on USAR Public Rosters by April 1 to be eligible for playoffs. The other piece that is often missed is that players also must have played in at least 1 match prior to RRRC finals. This can vary by division, for example, MD1 players at RRRC Championships will have to have played in at least 1 qualifying match BEFORE the event. Make sure to review the USAR Eligibility Regulations for specifics per division.
        2. Tie Breakers Reminder
          1. Roche: In MD3, the top two get automatic bids. Then there is a wild card round?
          2. Kurylas: Correct.
          3. Roche: So the top three teams are all undefeated. What do we do then? I’m doing another mid-season write-up kind of thing and I wanted to include something about that.
          4. Kurylas: Yes, so we would follow the tie breakers, essentially we move down the list to find the wild card teams. I will also send something out to the MD3 teams as a reminder.
        3. Eligibility Books
          1. Young: Just a general reminder that eligibility books are required for playoffs. If you haven’t been keeping up with your book, get started now!
    6. COVID-19 Notice
      1. Young: USA Rugby put out a notice last week about this. The Carolinas GU also put something out. Is this something we want to do?
      2. Fosco: I don’t think we need to do anything…we don’t want to cause panic.
      3. Roche: I can make a meme about it!
      4. Young: I did like the Carolinas post because it included a “stay the course” and if things change we will keep everyone informed. Anyone else have any thoughts?
        1. Young: Ok, so it doesn’t seem like we have a big appetite to post anything new right now. We can post the USA Rugby notice for our members.
    7. Ineligible Player – DARC vs Quins MD3
      1. Young: This was self reported by DARC on 3/9, they accidentally played an UnCIPP’d player during their match this past weekend.
      2. Kolberg: Kudos to them for self reporting but we have to follow the policy. I propose that we declare the match a forfeit and they are automatically docked a competitive point.
      3. Watson: If they had player sheets it would have included CIPP numbers and this wouldn’t have happened.
        1. Young: Any objections? None. APPROVED.
          1. Young: Kat, can you mark that as a forfeit and then we will add it to the TRU Board agenda for next week.
          2. Roche: Yes.
        2. Dale: I want to stay out of this but  the rules are the rules.
    8. Player Movement Eligibility – San Antonio W Proposal
      1. Young: Isis from the San Antonio W brought up player movement eligibility last year but it was after the schedule and divisions had already been set. She has now sent it in again after noting that I had talked with some of the MD3 teams about similar issues. I did let her and everyone on the email chain that with the USAR Reorganization we’re not sure WHO will be handling eligibility going forward. 
        1. Young: In summary it sounds like our MD3 and WD2 teams would like us to do everything we can to make sure that our multiple side clubs are playing on the same days. This would help make sure that rosters are semi-locked for a weekend.
        2. Fosco: I think part of what they are also asking for is that more of the matches occur in the fall instead of stacking the spring. 
        3. Young: We’ve gone back and forth on that seasonality and we’ve had it both ways. We’ve tried our best but it’s a ton of matches and the balance is very difficult. Different teams have different desires across all of the divisions.
        4. Fosco: I know, I’ve been around quite a bit. I have encouraged the teams to utilize that reschedule period once the schedule comes out for review.
        5. Roche: I personally did the schedule and tried my best to do this but it’s very difficult. We’re also dealing with the WD1 teams and since they are playing non-TRU teams, we have very little control.
        6. Fosco: Back in the day we let teams schedule and it was a pain in the ass.
        7. Young: Same, I was a scheduler and it sucked. It was different once the union took it over but generally I found it much easier.
        8. Roche: Especially for the women’s teams, any team that wants to play in the fall…we generally have more referee availability in the fall. Scott Green even took a WD1 match in the fall because he was available. So if the D2 teams wanted to start in the fall, there would usually be more referees available.
        9. Watson: Is there any reason that the WD2 teams wouldn’t want to play in the fall?
        10. Young: I don’t know that it would solve anything…that is the MD3 main complaint. They complain that the multi-side clubs play their D1 players in the fall before the MD1 competition starts.
        11. Watson: Ok but I’m saying that if they do play in the fall they would have more open dates and more referees. 
        12. Young: We did have seasons where we put some of the matches in the fall but then we found that most just moved them to the spring. 
        13. Roche: Just because everything has been done a certain way, it doesn’t mean that is the only way. We need clubs to speak up about things they are upset about and kudos to the WD2 for that. An example is we entered the women’s matches as KO times of 11am, but that can be changed. We just have to choose a time when we enter them into WTR. 
        14. Young: Ok, so as noted above, the ground is still moving beneath us in regards to the USAR reorg so we can’t do anything about this now. We do appreciate the proposal and will take it into consideration once we get closer to looking at schedules and divisions again. Usually we start looking at this after 7s concludes and I assume we will do so again this year. 
    9. New Business
      1. None.
    10. Meeting Adjourned (8:59 PM)
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